Curse

Sirus Dibley · Nov 15, 2006, 03:16 AM // 03:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Soggybottom

I don't like analogies. You can always find one to fit your arguments. I could, for example, say that GW is like a road trip. And everyone in it is a potential travelling companion. And currently most of the travelling companions that you have to choose from are so damn annoying that I choose to take my road trip alone (i.e. with henchies)

Sorry but comparing guild wars to a road trip just does not work. Nice try anyway.

Tommy · Nov 15, 2006, 03:22 AM // 03:22

NF is nothing more than a do-over, I am probably not buying next chapter now. but i like the hero system. now i dont have to play with pugs ever again

which is good for me.

Sid Soggybottom · Nov 15, 2006, 03:22 AM // 03:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirus Dibley

Sorry but comparing guild wars to a road trip just does not work. Nice try anyway.

Wow. The discussion degenerated really fast. Especially since you used an analogy to compare GW to walking to the store and getting exercise! Hahaha.

JoeKnowMo · Nov 15, 2006, 03:23 AM // 03:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

Anet has the hour by hour logs of exactly how many people are doing any activity in the game.....

......Anet is giving the vast majority of the players what they have shown they wanted by how they played the game not forum whined.

And they used this information incredibly well in designing Factions???

And they reduced the drop rate because when people got nice drops they left them on the ground but picked up every non-max white drop???

And how exactly would players "show" what they wanted - an auction house, for example - besides posting in forums??? There's a reason why Anet reads these forums.

Anet botches things and with time they come to realize it and change things (Refund points for attribute changes anyone). Sometimes it takes them forever, and sometimes they just never get around to it (an auction house).

In the end, the sound Anet hears loudest is the flow of money coming in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

this game is not the *neverending chapter*

it has an end where you *FINISH* the game....

....just because it is played online does not entitle you to guaranteed entertainment for 6 months.

GW stays entertaining for most PvP players for a long, long time. All PvE players (who make up the vast majority of players) are asking for is for a similar experience. There is *NO END* in pvp.

I'm not saying that solo farming should be buffed, in fact, I would like to see a further nerf. I like the AI changes too. I would like to see group farming/questing get a decent buff (in terms of drops) as there's not much else for players to do (besides pvp) once they've finished the game.

ChildeOfMalkav · Nov 15, 2006, 03:26 AM // 03:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirus Dibley

Sorry but comparing guild wars to a road trip just does not work. Nice try anyway.

I suppose guild wars is more like your analogy of peeps walking to the store and getting exercise, right? LOL.

Sirus Dibley · Nov 15, 2006, 03:33 AM // 03:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Soggybottom

Wow. The discussion degenerated really fast. Especially since you used an analogy to compare GW to walking to the store and getting exercise! Hahaha.

Read again silly billy. Make sure you understand what's going in a thread before you deliver your comedy HAHA. I was respnding to the question "what's your opinion of why people are choosing the supposedly horrible henchie/hero A.I. over having real people to interact with". To which I responded quicker / easier, My anaology was related to people , not the actual game. Still you understand now huh ? then again maybe not....

Sirus Dibley · Nov 15, 2006, 03:36 AM // 03:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChildeOfMalkav

I suppose guild wars is more like your analogy of peeps walking to the store and getting exercise, right? LOL.

sigh read above post as well.

Sid Soggybottom · Nov 15, 2006, 03:37 AM // 03:37

*sigh* I love how people can't have a discussion without getting all pissy. I did read it and I understood what you were saying but I was saying analogies are never a good way to prove a point.

You're the one who got pissy about my analogy, which is funny considering how flimsy of a connection yours has with GW. Anyway...take a few deep breaths dude.

Sirus Dibley · Nov 15, 2006, 03:40 AM // 03:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Soggybottom

I was saying analogies are never a good way to prove a point.

When you come up with comparing the game to a road tip (wtf) , is it any wonder ?

Time for bed mate.

Sid Soggybottom · Nov 15, 2006, 03:44 AM // 03:44

I guess they can't be all gems as comparing GW to walking and exercise...

Quintal · Nov 15, 2006, 03:45 AM // 03:45

I personally like the AI changes. Yes it's more like PvP, but have you stopped to think WHY? Maybe it's because the way people play in PvP (running about) is.. intelligent. Gasp! My AI shouldn't have artificial intelligence!

Why does a monk run from a warrior in PvP? Because without a snare he's reducing the damage he takes, thus keeping him self alive and helping his team win. Kiting is a smart thing (in most cases) to do.

The way I see it, if the mob's running makes killing them take longer.. isn't that smarter? They're giving their buddies more time to kill YOU while you chase after em. Seems a much better plan then mindlessly beating on something to me. How was the AI smart even in the slightest to beat on a 55 monk until they died?

Sure, it needs tweaks, but it's a step in the right direction IMO. We honestly should be past the days of AI that just goes "RAAgh! KILL!". I believe that AI should attempt to mimic humans as much as it can, how cool would it be to see an AI group that stops attacking a 55 when it notices they can't kill it to let the mesmers and rangers take em out? Ataxe that runs off to get 10 dying nightmares to help?

Also, a note about farming. I don't think that it's farming in general they want to nerf, but solo farming. It is a multiplayer game after all. If you take a full group into the UW you personally make less, but the same amount of goodies do drop over all. I think that's what they want in the end.

On another note, for those who have said NF is just a new skin on the same game, I agree. But I also somewhat expect that. I don't expect blinding innovation and constant changes from something with no monthly fee. As has been said before, a new player starting with NF would love it. Hate to sound cynical, but doesn't a new player (potential $150 sale) make a hell of a lot more money than someone who's already bought it and playing for free?

technician · Nov 15, 2006, 03:56 AM // 03:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quintal

Also, a note about farming. I don't think that it's farming in general they want to nerf, but solo farming. It is a multiplayer game after all. If you take a full group into the UW you personally make less, but the same amount of goodies do drop over all. I think that's what they want in the end.
:

*COUGH* Hero System *COUGH*
(((( _°Д°)))
Also if anyone wanted a PVP AI why not just go directly to PVP then. I'm sorry but yeah it's nice to have a challenge but when you're dealing with hundreds of mobs throughout the whole game who run away from you , I find it f***ing annoying. If you enjoy that then go ahead and have fun with it . It's boring enough to have to deal with mobs repitively but putting in an extra 10 min per mob chasing them down doesn't make anything better. Yeah sure snares whatever , it's still not the same.

WasAGuest · Nov 15, 2006, 04:29 AM // 04:29

Ok, here's some simple problems PvP fans might understand in making the AI attempt to play like PvP.

There are too many reasons the AI in PvE should not be made to act like PvP.

I will even use the above monk running from danger situation.

PvE players often fill in the groups with heroes and henchies, sometimes going out solo with just those. Now, say the player is playing a monk. Monk gets insta-aggro'd like in PvP. Monk calls target and begins to kite... guess what. Heroes and henchies try to follow now kiting monk.
Ok, monk has learned he/she can't kite cause AI is to freakin stupid. So, engages next fight. Mobs insta-aggro again. Monk calls target... now monk must stand there spam healing himself/herself and hope a boss mob doesn't show up, cause if it does... two hit... dead. Once dead, the heroes and henchies will lose called target and go looney toons targeting whatever.
Now, Anet could make the heroes and henchies "stick" to a target, but what about when the situation calls for a retreat? Then what... heroes and henchies are now stuck. Now what? PvP gotta kill the monk first thinking effectivly has now killed the monk class in PvE by doing this... how? It's now no longer fun, it's frustrating. Monk can "adapt" and take SoJ... but now all other Elite skills are out of reach and the class is now just that.. a healer with a must have SoJ. Dumb.

This problem is not that the monk is being targeted first as much as it is, once targetted, the player must kite, yet can't because of the AI. Further, the insta-monk aggro will create this problem in each battle for this player playing the monk. Henchies and Heroes are a great thing to have in the game; they fill in the blanks for groups fairly well, but when the AI is so poor... it kills the fun... and no, telling people to not use heroes and henchies does not solve the problem with the AI. It side steps it...

Second problem. AI is not a balanced even numbered group or even levels with even and balanced skills. The AI has more numbers; has higher damage; has more health; more armor and bosses have double hitting power plus half the condition and hex duration. The AI is overpowered in this way to make up for lack of "smarts". If the AI is made to act and react like a PvPer, then all the above listed things need to be readjusted. If not, then those praising the new broken AI, would need to compare a GvG match against 30 times the foes that can two hit your monk, insta-strip that prot spirit you are thinking about using and interupt that 1/4 cast timed spell with an arrow launched from a long bow... when you can honestly come out and say "that's fun and not frustrating" let me know.

Third, one of the better and more fun things in PvE is the ability to make the absolute worst build work. In PvP all I've ever seen is "builds" that vary very little. In PvE, not so. Is that because it's easy? Probably, but that flexablity is part of the charm and fun. Forcing players to take skills just to stay alive kills that... just as those players preaching the "take a snare" when the AI was first changed.

Lastly, and this is for Anet: Stop trying to shove PvP and PvE together. Many PvPers are not happy about AI in the PvP game, and many PvEers are not happy with the wanna-be PvP AI. It's ticking people off and ruining the fun.

Blackest Rose · Nov 15, 2006, 04:46 AM // 04:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by WasAGuest

Lastly, and this is for Anet: Stop trying to shove PvP and PvE together. Many PvPers are not happy about AI in the PvP game, and many PvEers are not happy with the wanna-be PvP AI. It's ticking people off and ruining the fun.

QFT!
I have tried PVP on several occassions and I hate it.
I read some PVP people are unhappy with heroes in the arena.

I'm currently not playing GW and my rehab cycle is nearly complete - 2 weeks without any serious play (I dive in for 5 mins to see if they've fixed the stupid AI yet - and even now I've stopped that coz reading the forums will let me know).
Cold turkey worked! - some weekend I played for only 8-10 hours but I pretty much played daily.... I'M CURED! PRAISE ANET!

Could you imagine if WOW did this....lol

arcanemacabre · Nov 15, 2006, 04:54 AM // 04:54

Just an observation I had that I thought was funny:

Before release, the one thing people were complaining (or... umm... discussing?) about were the inscriptions, and how the economy is going to be screwed, etc. etc. And the one thing that was discussed very little, and when it was, was being praised, were the heroes.

Now? Well, take a look around, it's the exact opposite. The economy is fine (except for complaints about chests, which no one saw coming), and the only thing people are bitching about are the heroes. Just so... ironic.

Sid Soggybottom · Nov 15, 2006, 05:02 AM // 05:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

Just an observation I had that I thought was funny:

Before release, the one thing people were complaining (or... umm... discussing?) about were the inscriptions, and how the economy is going to be screwed, etc. etc. And the one thing that was discussed very little, and when it was, was being praised, were the heroes.

Now? Well, take a look around, it's the exact opposite. The economy is fine (except for complaints about chests, which no one saw coming), and the only thing people are bitching about are the heroes. Just so... ironic.

I really feel for ANET. They put in an awesome feature and instead of people praising them, they get a face full of crap for their efforts.

garethporlest18 · Nov 15, 2006, 05:06 AM // 05:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Soggybottom

I really feel for ANET. They put in an awesome feature and instead of people praising them, they get a face full of crap for their efforts.

People don't want a non flawless feature that's probably why.

As for me I want Guild Wars, the land, the monsters, the UI as a big time grind, easy monsters, make money money money game that's how I like it. I can't find any other game that is like that because no other game copies GW to that extent.

Trakata · Nov 15, 2006, 05:21 AM // 05:21

I was just discussing this with some guildies...

I like this game, I've liked it overall since I bought it. Factions, I didn't like so much but I tolerated it and in some ways it helped me like the game even more. That being said...

Farming is what some of us (in the guild) did for amusement, for fun, after exhausting the campaign. My guild is PvE exclusive, pretty much. Call us scrubs or whatever you feel like inflating your ego with. We don't Faction grind, we don't grind period.

I've never seen farming as a grind, I saw it as a way to fill some things and maybe get a cool item in the process. It used to be fun (yes BLASPHEMY farming was fun to me). PvP at it's core is fun to me as well, but it's ruined by the typical MMO environment. I've heard "QQ nub" more than I've heard "thanks" in this game (outside of the guild).

A few of us are just getting bored. There's only so much PvE content to hold us now that the group farming methods are pretty much shot. Solo builds work but I thought the point of this game was to hang out with other people while you did stuff.

I'm just saying, I don't agree with the changes made in that area. Inscriptions, woot. Heros, woot woot. Me not having fun after depleting the "new game" feel? Not so woot.

I'm getting bored. Simple as that. Insult, please.

Blackest Rose · Nov 15, 2006, 05:46 AM // 05:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trakata

I'm just saying, I don't agree with the changes made in that area. Inscriptions, woot. Heros, woot woot. Me not having fun after depleting the "new game" feel? Not so woot.

I'm getting bored. Simple as that. Insult, please.

What should have been a huge improvement in GW and revitalised the entire community has been marred for several people by the AI update.
Something which has nothing to do with Nightfall game itself.

Anet need to look at what people like to do and make their game more like that. Surely they have statistics on what people like to do and what they don't ... if they're going to increase player base give them more of what they already like.
If people like farming - so what Anet - let them farm...

They have 2 chapters of data to enhance the NF experience and NF seems to be a great game but for the AI changes.

arcanemacabre · Nov 15, 2006, 05:47 AM // 05:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trakata

I'm getting bored. Simple as that. Insult, please.

No need for flames - everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Just one question: What do you mean "...group farming methods are pretty much shot"? Honestly, I haven't seen this at all. People are complaining about not being able to solo in many areas, but grouping seems very much alive. Just color me confused on that bit.